Yeah like this is it, this entire worldview basically amounts to refusing to believe that wars exist if you close your eyes, and to be quite frank I am done taking those people seriously. The world is far too terrible right now to treat pacifists as adults worthy of participating in debate.

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"Ukraine should just join a cooperative, non-militarized diplomatic bloc" That's the EU (it also has a mutual defense cause) and that is the entire reason this whole thing kicked off 12 years ago and remains a demand the Russians refuse to budge on

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"We should try diplomacy" The purpose of a gun is for when diplomacy fails which the Russians are very intent on having happen

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The purpose of NATO is to scare Russians with the prospect of a violent and painful demise should they attack a member state and I'm tired of having to pretend that's objectionable

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the reasons why this is viewed as objectionable are either that the people who believe it think that “having a military” is in and of itself morally objectionable because “if we just didn’t have weapons, we couldn’t do war”, or belief that all wars are caused by “the west”

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